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During researching symbols I came across a box with numerals in it which one would trace a symbol by tracing the numbers of the particular word to symbolize.
Odd thing was the way the numerals were placed, not in sequence. Anyone seen the box or technique before?
Odd thing was the way the numerals were placed, not in sequence. Anyone seen the box or technique before?
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Re: Symbols From Number Box
Mon, April 16, 2007 - 7:09 PMI'm not sure what you mean by tracing a symbol through the numbers, but it sounds like a yantra or "magic square." It also sounds similar to some things I've read of Kabalah and "Bible code." Could you maybe post a link to or picture of what you mean by tracing a symbol through the numerals? -
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Re: Symbols From Number Box
Tue, April 17, 2007 - 5:36 PMThanks for the reply! I posted this also at Symbols on Tribe and also got a reply too suggesting "Magic Square". That's what I came accross and didn't know the term.
The box looks like
123
456
789
except the square equals mathmatical equasions.
The tracing was of certian areas of the square representing a symbol, I found it in studying Astrology and symbols of the Planets.
Bible Codes could be similar as well as a yantra (manthra?) and kabalah, not studied it deeply yet.
During looking up the term I came across this site summerizing the decent of information related www.monas.nl/think/angelmagic.htm -
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Re: Symbols From Number Box
Wed, April 18, 2007 - 4:56 PMYes, that is exactly what a magic square is and I have seen the symbols overlaying the numbers, though I'm not certain that they are derived from the numbers. A Yantra is what a "magic square" is called in India, but the Yantra tradition is older than the magic squares of the Middle Ages. Yantra's look more like mandalahs than the magic square and are often geometric rather than numeric. They often have corresponding deities and mantras. Both yantras and magic squares are talismanic, but yantras are more often used for focusing the mind.
As for magic squares, there's a square for every planet and corresponding angelic symbols, metals, etc. Like I said though, I don't know that the symbols are actually derived from the numbers themselves. I would suggest the Magician's Companion by Bill Whitcomb for a complete least of squares and correspondences. -
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Re: Symbols From Number Box
Thu, April 19, 2007 - 5:23 PMThanks for the correspondance! The symbols are derived by tracing areas of the box, like connect the dots.
I wonder about the age and the terminology - "magic". Are these descended from the "Magi"? Did a turtle
form China originate the concept, or reinforce it? Is it descended from a variation of geometric meditative
Mandalas from India representing numerous Dieties? Are there any Talisimic properties or are these only
illustrations? Where did the "squares" of the Planets and the associations of Angels, Stones, Metals,
Inteligences, Spirits, Herbs, Properties, etc. descend from?
Like the Astrological Symbols it appears the Squares, Sigils and what they represent are ancient - "lost" and interpreted by
various individuals in various ways possibly distorted by those who pass the knowledge down. Scientific evidence could
re-inforce traditions. The Planet Venus traces a 5 pointed star by its orbit. -
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Re: Symbols From Number Box
Sat, April 21, 2007 - 9:29 AMThe "Magic Squares" and their corresponding symbols are definitely of Medieval origin. However, the numeric squares may have had their beginning in Rome and I have heard them linked to the mathemetician mystic Pythagoras and his followers. There is also a tradition of "magic squares" using "words," Abracadabra being one of the most famous. Abracadabra was used as a charm (long before is was parodied in stagecraft), by writing the word and then diminishing it by one letter in each successive line to form a triangle. It was carried to remove illness. As the word diminished, so to would the illness. This comes from Cabbalitic usage. There was also a tradition of demon traps in the Middle East wherein a spell was written in a bowl, spiralling from the rim to the bottom where the demon would be drawn and trapped as it read the words. This tradition may have given rise to the geometric yantras of India designed to draw the viewer inwards in contemplation.
So I don't think it can be said that the tradition of the "magic square" came from one specific place, but rather it has evolved from multiple sources. The Middle Ages were a time when many ideas came together to synthesize new traditions. The squares existed long before then, but "angelic script" and such sigils and spirits as you see associated with the squares are not evident in history until that time. The other correspondences -herbs, metals, stones, animals- come from ancient associations with the planets rather than the squares themselves.
As for Venus, I find it to be one of the most fascinating planets, tradition-wise. The pentagram and octogram are both derived from the transit of Venus, and it is both the Evening and Morning Star depending upon its course. Though now associated solely with Venus, the goddess of beauty and love, at other times it has been both a male and female deity or stood for the goddess of love or war, depending upon its position. -
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Re: Symbols From Number Box
Sat, April 21, 2007 - 2:45 PMInteresting! Makes sense it has evolved from multiple sources. I stumbled upon the 5 point star orbit of Venus, not heard of the 8 point octogram. Wonder what would be a good web resource for data, especially archeological and ancient associations of Planets? -
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Re: Symbols From Number Box
Sun, April 22, 2007 - 1:22 PMI couldn't find any good, in-depth websites on the subject, but I'd recommend "Echoes of the Ancient Skies: The Astronomy of Lost Civilizations" by E.C. Krupp. I did a quick search of Amazon and found it used for as low as 41 cents! I love Amazon sometimes. heh "The Dictionary of Symbols" by Luingman is good too in analyzing the pentagram and many other symbols ($4.49-used), or just go to symbols.com which is the official website for the book and very easy to use.
Basicially though, Venus has an eight year cycle. It is located at the same location with respect to the "fixed" stars every eight years. During that time, it switches back and forth between morning and evening star five times. So it is represented by both the eight- and five-pointed star. You're probably familiar with the theories about 2012? But I find it interesting that it corresponds with the end of Venus' solar transit cycle. Venus as the Morning Star corresponds to Ishtar as goddess of war which may or may not be a good omen as it is the end of the current cycle. -
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Re: Symbols From Number Box
Mon, April 23, 2007 - 10:05 AM"Echoes of the Ancient Skies: The Astronomy of Lost Civilizations" by E.C. Krupp - that sounds like a great book! You would be a good librarian! Is Amazon a dependable place to get books? -
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Re: Symbols From Number Box
Mon, April 23, 2007 - 2:04 PMThanks :) I actually work in a bookstore. heh But I wouldn't mind working in a library.
The thing you have to remember about Amazon (or any place similar) is that all used books are sold by individuals through them. I even sell a few from time to time. As a rule, I never buy from anyone with a rating below 95% good feedback, even if it means going with a slightly higher price, and you should always check through the most recent feedback for any seller just to be on the safe side. You want to do business with someone you can trust, so it's best to see what others have said before you buy from a stranger. You also want to check where they're shipping from. That'll give you an idea of how long it should take for your order to reach you (before you start to panic! heh).
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Re: Symbols From Number Box
Sat, September 15, 2007 - 8:58 AMHeya! I just wanted to let you know I bought a book the other day called "Math for Mystics" that gives an explanation of how you can create symbols using magic squares, so I thought of you. Concerning the magic squares in the book though, there's a pretty bad typo -the squares for Venus, Mercury, and the Moon are all the same square (the sun's). It shouldn't be too hard for you to find the actual squares for those "planets." I drew up the squares myself and taped them over the typos in my copy. The information presented in the book is pretty solid though. Not very detailed, but it does give the basics of how the squares actually work beyond being simple talismans.